Author Topic: A bit concerned  (Read 639 times)

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A bit concerned
« on: 21 April 2013, 07:46:27 pm »
Lads,I bought my 1975 S3 from this chap who advertised it as having rrc diffs (200tdi installed) Had driven it local for a few miles but always in 2wd. Today I had the fwh's locked but not in 4wd and slowly pulled away but it felt as if the brakes were stuck on! Reversed a metre or two (felt normal) and tried again with the same result. I then turned the hubs back to free and it was fine when pulling away :confused:
All sorts of crap is spinning around in my head including could it be wind up but then again, it was not in 4wd. Or are the diffs mismatched at all?!!!!!!
Im a bit baffled & worried tbh.
Is there definately no way of identifying the diffs by some or other marking on the cases?
Not that it may help but here are a few shitty pics of the diffs
Front:



Rear:



Any thoughts welcome :smile1
1975 Series bakkie with 200tdi

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Re: A bit concerned
« Reply #1 on: 21 April 2013, 08:03:52 pm »
I'm not sure about markings, but you can jack up a rear wheel (in neutral, 2WD, handbrake off), give the wheel one full turn and count the number of times the propshaft turns (mark it with chalk to make it easy to count).

Do the same with the front (in 2WD with FWH engaged) and if the diffs are the same, the prop should turn the same number of times.

I seem to recall with 4.7:1 (original) diffs the prop should turn twice that, ie. 9.4 times.
With 3.54:1 diffs it should turn 7.08 times.

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1958 109" Carawagon (project);  1967 109" Carawagon, 200TDi; 1971 109" Carawagon (project)

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Re: A bit concerned
« Reply #2 on: 21 April 2013, 08:07:35 pm »
Check as RMS says, you will get around 1 3/4 turns of prop with 3.54 diffs fitted.

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Re: A bit concerned
« Reply #3 on: 21 April 2013, 08:08:45 pm »
Check as RMS says, you will get around 1 3/4 turns of prop with 3.54 diffs fitted.

Aha, have I got my maths the wrong way round then   :haha:
1958 109" Carawagon (project);  1967 109" Carawagon, 200TDi; 1971 109" Carawagon (project)

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Re: A bit concerned
« Reply #4 on: 21 April 2013, 08:17:42 pm »
is there a filler plug on both diffs?
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Re: A bit concerned
« Reply #5 on: 21 April 2013, 08:47:56 pm »
Thanks for the advice lads-will do the revolution test tomorrow night! Lucy..Only a filler on the rear diff :confused:
Would a miss matched gear ratio show itself up like I described within a couple of metres? The other thing is that it could have been driven with the hubs unlocked for ages so could the lack of things turning & being lubed proper maybe cause this dragging im strying to describe?
1975 Series bakkie with 200tdi

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Re: A bit concerned
« Reply #6 on: 21 April 2013, 09:20:35 pm »
RR Diffs always have a filler plug AFAIK....

Sounds like 2 different diffs.


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Re: A bit concerned
« Reply #7 on: 21 April 2013, 09:46:41 pm »
I dont know if all RR diffs had a filler plugs,(Ive had some that were reportedly RR but didnt have filler plugs) part no.s may tell you what you have if evident, If you do have two differing ratios my guess is the rear is 354 and the front is 471, just because of the time and hassle it takes to change a front one.
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Re: A bit concerned
« Reply #8 on: 21 April 2013, 10:06:06 pm »
Well as a start they're both "flat bottom" diffs, which was a feature since November 1970. So at least there's a chance. Had they had the earlier seal housing, then a 3.54 they would certainly NOT be, as they are only flat bottomed.

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Re: A bit concerned
« Reply #9 on: 22 April 2013, 07:17:10 am »
My rear rangey diff does not have a filler and I fill down the hubs.
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Re: A bit concerned
« Reply #10 on: 22 April 2013, 05:45:23 pm »
Did the prop revolution check with the rear prop rotating 2.33 turns per wheel revolution. Jacked up the front drivers side and locked the hub as instructed and the wheel rotates whilst the front prop stood still :confused: Jacked up the near side front, locked the hub and rotated the wheel a couple of inches until it seemed to jam!! The prop was rotating in this instance. This would tie in with the feel of the brakes being on as I tried to pull off yesterday.
What do you guys think of this?
1975 Series bakkie with 200tdi

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Re: A bit concerned
« Reply #11 on: 22 April 2013, 05:55:08 pm »
You need to lock both front hubs to do the 'prop revolution' test, otherwise the halfshaft in the unlocked hub spins and the prop stays still, as you found.

It sounds like you're in 4WD if it seems to be jamming - if you've got another jack try lifting a rear wheel as well to see if that turns when you rotate the front wheel. (assuming handbrake off).

Check the yellow knob lever, push it down with the red lever in the forward (Hi) position. The yellow knob should stay down.

Pull the red lever back and the yellow knob should pop up (about 2" or so).

If the yellow knob doesn't stay down, or if it doesn't pop up when you pull the red lever back, it sounds like you're stuck in 4WD   :haha:

Cheers,
Robin.
1958 109" Carawagon (project);  1967 109" Carawagon, 200TDi; 1971 109" Carawagon (project)

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Re: A bit concerned
« Reply #12 on: 22 April 2013, 06:01:30 pm »
Oh, and I think I did get my maths wrong - I thought I'd remembered the prop turned twice as fast with one wheel stationary, but it probably turns at half speed   :-?

If so, on a 4.7:1 diff the prop will rotate 2.35 times.

With a 3.54:1 diff the prop will rotate 1.77 times, as divie said, so it looks like your rear diff is 4.7:1    :rolleye0012:
1958 109" Carawagon (project);  1967 109" Carawagon, 200TDi; 1971 109" Carawagon (project)

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Re: A bit concerned
« Reply #13 on: 22 April 2013, 07:40:41 pm »
Robin, thanks for the tips! Firstly, the 4wd knob was pressed down so after pulling the red lever to & fro, its released as it should :banghead :banghead.Tried it again with hubs locked & the landy rolled forward perfectly compared to feeling braked yesterday!
Next I jacked both front wheels of the ground and with the hubs locked rotated the wheels & hey ho, the prop turns :smile1 After this I checked the prop rotation and it turned 1.75 times which seems to indicate as you said, that a 3:54 diff on the front & 4:77 on the rear :eek:
With that identified, I did the last test you recommended and jacked a rear up too & rotated a front wheel.This moved the rear wheel a bit but not much.
So it looks like a bit of newbie fubaring on my part & a bit of disclosure about the diffs by the p/o :smiley-furious:
This would explain why it seemed to go uphill like a rocket but rev its **** off :smilewide:

Cheers lads, at least I feel there is some light now ;-)
1975 Series bakkie with 200tdi

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Re: A bit concerned
« Reply #14 on: 22 April 2013, 07:43:51 pm »
That's great that you now know what's what   :smilewide:

As said before, the front diff is the hardest to replace, so at least you've just got the easy one to change    :thumbs:
1958 109" Carawagon (project);  1967 109" Carawagon, 200TDi; 1971 109" Carawagon (project)

Land Rover Classic Campers forum at www.lrcc.org.uk