Author Topic: Is this right?  (Read 320 times)

Offline quattrofoto

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Is this right?
« on: 20 August 2014, 12:42:44 pm »
Hi all,

Apologies from the outset - I am no expert on gearboxes and clutches etc. As far as I am concerned rotational force from the engine goes into them, witchcraft happens and the props turn...

Anyway. I had a recon (weird/hodge podge) S2a gearbox fitted. It leaked like a seive and then gradually got worse and worse until I could no longer select any gear.

One of ours, Violet, has come up trumps and supplied a Series 3 gearbox, complete with the hydraulics and a clutch.  I do know that the clutch is different between the two, but one small thing is bothering me, however bear with me as I don't know what the correct names are. I shall try my best to explain.

On the old S2 clutch housing/cover there is a kind of funny shaped steel thing at the very centre - its held in place by the 'fingers' but is otherwise able to spin freely. It is obviously the point at which the clutch release mechanism inside the bellhousing interacts with the clutch cover.

On the S3 clutch cover, it isn't there - it's just the 'fingers' and then the hole where the shaft goes through. Is this correct, or is there something missing? I have looked at the various images in my workshop manuals (I have about four or five different versions for each model) and they are all a bit vague in this area, however I know folk around here will know.

Thanks in advance.
Ste

Offline Huffo-James

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Re: Is this right?
« Reply #1 on: 20 August 2014, 04:55:01 pm »


Sounds to me like you might be describing the clutch release bearing FRC 4679.

Don't buy a blue box one unless you are happy to take the gearbox out and replace the bearing again in a couple of months.


Offline Peter de Dawg

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Re: Is this right?
« Reply #2 on: 20 August 2014, 06:59:10 pm »
The S3 version clutch is a cheap nasty affair, there is nothing missing from the cover, the fingers are operated directly by a crappy plastic release bearing, in turn worked by a crude pressed steel fork thing ::)..personally I would do the old bellhousing swap thing to keep the properly engineered 2a release set up...

guest13

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Re: Is this right?
« Reply #3 on: 20 August 2014, 09:31:49 pm »
As he said, nothing missing its how the S3 clutch is
The S3 release bearing (a separate part unlike the S2 where its part of the gearbox) pushes onto the finders - don't fit a cheap one, you will regret it

I wouldn't agree with swapping to the S2 bell housing. The S3 system works fine, for many LR's for years and is a pretty standard system used all over the automotive world since the 70's and in many cases still is
The S2 system while long lived is massively over engineered (the S3 system will easily last the life of the clutch plate anyway)

Offline Peter de Dawg

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Re: Is this right?
« Reply #4 on: 21 August 2014, 01:22:29 am »
^ ..I like massively over engineered, that's why I like Land Rovers..... and why I'm less keen on many elements of the S3 with it's introduction of cheapened plastic parts etc.. a sign of it's times of course..

Offline johnpirate

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Re: Is this right?
« Reply #5 on: 21 August 2014, 07:40:24 am »
I,ve changed the bellhousings over from series 3 back to 2a .Its not a difficult job.If your not sure I can give you a hand if you want.
You may walk or you may run you leave your footprints all around the sun.

Offline quattrofoto

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Re: Is this right?
« Reply #6 on: 21 August 2014, 08:45:11 am »
Actually I quite like 'over engineered' too. I had series three's for years (this is actually my first ever series 2a) and I never had a problem with release bearings or clutch mechanisms, but having received the replacement release bearing from Craddocks yesterday, I am kind of glad I didn't manage to fit the damn thing.

Despite telling me it wouldn't be shitpart, what turned up was indeed a shitpart bearing. The plastic sleeve thing is extremely cheap and nasty and the bit of the bearing that interfaces with the clutch cover is nowhere near the same sort of shape and size of the original.

So - plan is I am going to try to free off the old bearing. I'll soak it in some petrol or GT85 for a few nights, see how it goes. I sprayed a bit of GT85 on it and it does move ever so slightly now so a good soak might just do the trick. If that fails, John I will then love to take you up on the kind offer. I have just butchered carefully cut out the strengthening bit of the crossmember on one side to enable the fitting of the series 3 slave cylinder though which was a right pain in the arse so I'd prefer to stick with the S3 clutch if I can. Whatever happens I aint fitting that piece of shite Craddocks have sent me. I have no desire to tear it all back out again after a few months.  :2mo5pow:

Offline Peter de Dawg

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Re: Is this right?
« Reply #7 on: 21 August 2014, 10:29:50 am »
I hear what you're saying about having made space for the S3 slave.... however I'd never use a crappy S3 type mechanism if I could fit a proper 2a job, ( it's way easier to bleed too )
  Trust me, take advantage of the kind offer of assist from Johnpirate !

Offline quattrofoto

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Re: Is this right?
« Reply #8 on: 25 August 2014, 08:33:23 pm »
Well, I was tempted to change the bellhousings over but after a soak in petrol, and liberal amounts of GT85 (love that stuff) the original release bearing freed off. It was basically chock full of mud. I kept spraying GT85 in until it came back out clear and felt right. I know that it will probably not last terribly long, but I reckon it will still last a lot longer than the shitpart one.

After re-adjusting the brakes which were probably a death waiting to happen (think nothing one minute, total lock up the next, randomly) and topping up the gearbox oils (for now, intend to do a full oil change later) I went for a quick blat and I can say it's a million times better.

If you recall I could only manage between 15 and 20 MPH on the M62 up the hills and it would not accelerate, it always felt like there was something dragging rather than a lack of power. Well, now it will accelerate decently and I managed 50 MPH from junction 20 to Junction 19 on the M62 earlier. I didn't have time to go further but early indications are it's cured.

The new gearbox is, comparatively, silky smooth apart from dropping from third to second where it grinds a bit, although this is absent mostly if I double declutch. I can live with it for now. The clutch is a lot better than before, I can even hold it on the bite (impossible before) and speaking of, the bite point is a lot more predictable. The master cylinder is on the very end of the adjustment though, don't know if that is right.

Just the terrifyingly lethal steering to sort out now, and it ought to be a thoroughly nice Land Rover. After that I'll be onto 'enhancements' (like paint that doesn't look like it was just thrown on, and door seals that...seal) 

Offline Peter de Dawg

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Re: Is this right?
« Reply #9 on: 26 August 2014, 10:56:59 am »
At least you've got a viable, usable motor now, that's the main thing ! ...You can always tinker and change bits later if and when you can be arsed ! :toothless: